Dave: Hey everyone, Dave here with another episode of the Philly Tech Connect podcast. Today, I’m speaking with Mr. Russ Stark. He is the CEO of Spin Company, a national service design and digital experience design and development firm based in Philly. Russ has over 25 years of experience and has won a number of awards. He is also a strong proponent of community, having been on the board of the Sunday Breakfast Club, as well as a dozen other organizations. If you check out his LinkedIn profile and go to the volunteering section, it’s long. It is lengthy. So, we know we’re talking with someone who has been quite involved in the Philly community. Russ, how are you doing today?
Russ: I’m doing good, thanks, Dave.
Dave: Pleasure to have you on the show. I was introduced to you through a community member, Jay, and was just super impressed with your background and history, to the point of not necessarily being sure where to begin. So, I have some various topics I’d love to get your thoughts on, and I figured I’d start by just talking about digital solutions, like 25-plus years ago. If I understand correctly, you were pre-dating Think Company and everything there, kind of in the early days of what we think of as the internet. Tell us a little bit about that time and how it evolved into what it is today.
Russ: Sure, yeah. When I first moved down to Philadelphia right out of grad school, I worked for a company out in University City, and we were doing computer-based simulation training. We were developing that stuff in proprietary software and delivering solutions on CD-ROMs. So it was kind of the crazy days of literally running and chasing UPS trucks from stop to stop to make sure we got it off to the client in time. It was very different than it is now. The internet was a thing, but when I started there, we didn’t even have email at first. It was like some real classic stuff. When we first started, email came online, but we didn’t deliver any internet solutions there until later. By that time, I had moved on to specifically work more on the user experience internet-wise. I had to go to other companies for that kind of thing. But yeah, those first five years were when it was transitioning over.
Dave: Did the hurdles you just mentioned make it more fun? That’s what had to be done, or has the fun evolved in different ways over time?
Russ: That’s a really interesting question. I don’t know. I think we all equate the early years of our career with fun, right? What’s happening now, which we all are experiencing on the other side of COVID, is that a lot of us are talking about how work was before COVID and how much different it was. We lament the way things are now to a degree because that interpersonal closeness is not where it was, no matter how good the online tools are. But the fact is, and I talk to people about this all the time, it’s not that companies have changed; it’s that the world has changed, and companies had to change along with it. So we can lament those things, but it’s also because we were all, however many years, five years younger, and things were different, the landscape was different, and the world was different. I think that’s happening more and more frequently now, but that’s even how I look back on those early days. I was such a different person; everything was different, so it’s easy to get nostalgic about it.
Dave: I feel that quite well, looking back at some of my older businesses too. You had a role change at Spin Company, if I understood correctly. Maybe it was about six years ago, you became the CEO from another role. What can you tell us about that time period and the transition to CEO? In what ways may or may not have empowered you with some type of advantageous perspective of not being the original “founder”?
Russ: Yeah, it’s interesting. I was lucky to work for really good founders who did a great job when they held the C-level titles. I was part of the conversations that led to the creation of the company in the first place, around the idea of what we would do differently if we were going to create our own company. So then we did that for a bunch of years. I think, just as an individual, you can’t help but think, “Okay, well, if I were doing that job, I might do it this way.” Everyone brings different pieces of their personality to it. I did work for a bunch of CEOs in my history, not Carl, who held it here, but just folks that seemed distant and wanted a firewall between them and the rest of the organization. I never liked that, and I know how it made me feel. It was an opportunity for me to see what it would look like if I radically leaned into it on the other side of that coin. I think, as we all learn, some of that works and some of it doesn’t. One of the biggest things I tell folks when they’re about to go through similar changes is that the nature of the work definitely changes. Maybe it’s not as much of the physical lift in terms of hours, but it’s much more of an emotional lift than I would have thought. When things happen on your watch, well, it’s your problem and your responsibility, and it’s a different thing.
Dave: It sounds like the way you approach being in the CEO position is to have less barriers between you and your team and to have more intimate, human, friendly connections with them. Is that true? Does that ever backfire when you need to be somewhat disciplinarian or strict with someone?
Russ: In short, I’ve had to learn how to balance. When a company becomes a certain size, and we’re about 125 people now, that flat approach doesn’t work. We tried that at much smaller sizes, and it doesn’t work. When you’re a company of a certain size, you need to know where accountability lies, where responsibility is, and who’s allowed to make decisions. There has to be some kind of hierarchy. I respect and understand that there needs to be a functional hierarchy, but I try not to have the social hierarchy that usually accompanies that. I’ve learned that there are times when I need to stand down or step aside and let managers handle things. You learn how to temper yourself because there are difficult decisions and conversations that have to happen in business. I always want to be vulnerable, helpful, and have good relationships with people, but you have to know where the boundaries are, and that can be tough sometimes.
Dave: Shifting gears a little, I noticed when I was perusing your LinkedIn, specifically the volunteering section, you’re on a number of boards. There was something like the Sunday Breakfast Club, PACT, the Chamber of Philadelphia. Are you a good guy who has trouble saying no? How do you get on all these boards? What are the expectations of a board member? If someone out there is thinking about assembling a board, what does it look like? What’s the give and take?
Russ: I definitely have trouble saying no, that’s part of why there are so many. But it’s also because there are so many organizations in Philly doing great work. When they reach out, it’s hard not to feel flattered that they think you can help them in some way. It’s easy to say yes to all these great organizations. I think everyone should do it over time. I’ve always said it’s good to have a compass: some boards are good for networking and digging deeper into the business community, which is good for your organization and for you as an individual. It’s one of the best ways to do it because you’re not just walking around shaking hands; you’re doing something shoulder-to-shoulder with other people and getting to know them in a different way. They get to see who you really are, so that’s really good. That can be the Chamber or PACT, although those organizations do a lot of great outreach and mentorship programs. On the other side, I try to find organizations like Broad Street Ministry, now Broad Street Love, and Greener Partners, that are doing important work in the community, like helping the homeless or getting fresh food to food deserts. If you think you have something to offer, then you do, and these organizations need people willing to roll up their sleeves. It’s not hard to find them; all these organizations need people to help out, either officially on a board or just to know that when they’re going up against a big problem, they can count on you.
Dave: There’s a lot of human-centric dialogue in the way you speak and your ethos, yet you’re working in the digital solutions industry, which is undoubtedly incorporating AI more and more. How are you handling the change and adjustment in these times?
Russ: Great question. It’s easy to jump on the bandwagon, especially when AI is part of your offering, and talk about it in a way that makes it seem like it’s going to change everything for the better. It will change everything, but I don’t know if it’s universally for the better. It’s important to be clear about it. I’ve never been, and the organization has never been about technology for technology’s sake. We’ve only been interested in it when it supports and betters human experience, and AI shows it can do that. We’re more interested in how it can make people bionic rather than replace them or disenfranchise them. Using AI to crunch lots of data that would take a long time to analyze is a great way to use it. It’s fantastic for getting you past the blank page when you need a first pass at a blog post or a meeting agenda. That’s all fine. The blur happens when people get gung-ho about how AI might replace people or reduce the number of hires they need to make, and that’s where I get cautious. I’m also cautious about not going to the other extreme. I think folks are getting a little bit chicken-little about it, saying that AI will destroy us all, but maybe not. We’re in the space of being careful about how we talk about it, being very measured in what we’re saying it can do, and being honest about the fact that we’re still figuring it out.
Dave: You’re working with 125 team members at the moment. Is your company leveraging any AI tools right now, or is that more in the future?
Russ: We’re definitely working with them now, but we’re being cautious about how we do it and what we say about it. Most of it is internal, but we have a specific team investigating the tools and where they make sense. Right now, it’s mostly in our internal tooling and where it can help us increase efficiency. We’re building up our own, for lack of a better term, internal GitHub Copilot, so when folks have questions about what others have done internally, it can help surface that stuff. We’re more interested in what we’re doing for clients; we’re leaning in and saying, “We’re all figuring this out together, so we’ll be partners with you on that journey.” We’re learning a lot about what generative AI can do, and that’s great, but we haven’t landed on a clear direction yet, and that’s on purpose. If we feel strongly about it later, we’ll go there, but we’re not there right now.
Dave: Do you find that a particular division within your company is using these tools more than others?
Russ: Yes, definitely. I’d say the design team is using it more often because they’re finding ways to reduce the time spent on things like wireframing, which is repetitive. They’re seeing the benefit of automating parts of the process, like coming up with alternative concepts. We haven’t found an AI tool that has it totally figured out, but there are many places where it can augment the work and free up the team to focus on the more important stuff. It definitely reduces some of the grind and opens the floor for creative thinking and innovation.
Dave: This reminds me of the AI artist, Refik Anadol, and his massive public installations. Does this resonate with you?
Russ: Absolutely, yeah. That’s an excellent example of how you can work with AI rather than against it. What I love about his work is that he’s doing something genuinely new. We’re not interested in designing it for the sake of looking cool. We want to create something that does the work of informing and communicating, making sure the product or experience serves the user’s needs. That requires being a bit more thoughtful and taking time, which is not always easy to convince people of. AI can assist in getting us to a point where we can make more thoughtful choices.
Dave: Russ, I have a closing question that I’d love your input on. What do you think is unique about Philly’s tech scene, and why should people consider getting involved?
Russ: Philly is one of those places that you can really get to know and become a part of pretty quickly. It’s got the cool parts of a big city without being overwhelmingly huge. The tech scene is welcoming and full of good people doing amazing work, whether in startups or established companies. The proximity to New York and DC is beneficial too. It’s a great place for making connections, and the community is very supportive. That’s the beauty of Philly – it’s not just about tech; it’s about being part of a broader, caring community.
Dave: Thanks so much, Russ, for joining me today. Your insights have been incredibly valuable, and I’m sure our listeners will enjoy learning more about your journey and thoughts on the industry.
Russ: Thanks, Dave. It was a pleasure to be here.